This is about the voting in CA, so if you’re tired of the subject, sorry. But I’ve got to get this off my chest.
If you’ve looked around my site or have read for awhile, you know I’m LDS (Mormon). And the Mormons have gotten a lot of publicity in CA for their stance on gay marriage. They have been targeted with hate crimes and have had protesters outside of churches. These people protesting are the same ones who have been shouting for tolerance!! How can you say something like that, then turn around and show intolerance because you disagree? You don’t see any Mormons picketing gay clubs or beating up gay/lesbian couples.
We have a very strong stand against abortion…when “pro-choice” got voted in in CO, did you see Mormons bombing clinics?? Of course not.
There was a choice, a vote to be made (in both states). The options were given to us by the gov’t…yes or no. That means each of us has a right to our opinions, liked or disliked. The decisions were made by a majority. And that’s where it should end. Anything past that is poor losing and flat-out bullying and scare tactics.
The percentage of “no” votes in CA was 52%. Do people realize the Mormon population is no where near that? So that means others also voted no. 70% of black voters said no. That’s a huge group! And I know without a doubt not every single Mormon voted no…I know 2 people just in my church here in my town that have gay/lesbian siblings and they would have voted yes. And that’s just here, in the boonies, not out in CA where the population is higher.
I’m sick of all the blaming and hatred (and don’t go tell me Mormons hate gay people…if you do, I assure you, you’ll feel my wrath). The voting is over, leave people out of it! If you don’t like it, go to the government who gave us the choice in the first place and protest there.
For me this whole issue, has to do with the separation of church and state. I believe whole heartedly, in the separation of church and state, when it comes to government. I do not think the people should be voting on this issue at all, as it is a civil, and human rights. I think everyone has a right to be who they are, and have the same rights as everyone else. If they are breaking Gods law, then God will see to it that they are punished. Whether or not you believe marriage should be between just a man and a woman, or not it is still against their rights to disallow it. With that said, I do not for one second condone violence, hatred, or any of the other things we are hearing about against the Mormon church, who are just as much in their rights to believe as they do.
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I look at the people who would commit violence against your church no different than those who would commit violence against someone who is gay/lesbian. I know that the vast majority of lds Mormons are not committing hate crimes but there have been a few. You just have to look at the people who are going overboard and vandalizing as just as crazy as those that would graffiti someone’s house just because they are gay. It happens but it is a very small group of people who would engage in such acts.
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I agree that there shouldn’t be a contradiction. If someone’s message is love or tolerance, then he or she shouldn’t turn around and promote hate or intolerance. Unfortunately, this happens a lot. Some examples:
1. Pro-lifers bombed abortion clinics because the doctors perform abortions.
2. America is the land of religious freedom, but people started questioning whether Obama was Muslim as if being so would make him unfit for the presidency.
Hopefully, this type of double-thinking is only for a small percentage of people and the majority of us are more rational.
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I agree with you too. There shouldn’t be any violence involved, but there should be protests, marches and points of views shared and examined.
I do hope no one gets hurt through all this.
For me, I don’t subscribe to any religion, hence, I prefer to not have any one religion tell me how I should live my life…for that case, anyone. So long as I do no harm, that should be ok.
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Melissa: I tend to agree it’s a civil thing, too, in which case the gov’t should just decide…that’s how we got the rights we have in the first place.
Modernmommy: Yeah, I’m sure there’s a few idiot Mormons causing trouble…but as a whole, the church really isn’t fighting back.
Davida: My pov exactly.
Wayne: I think all the marches should’ve been done before the vote. And this may shock you ( 😛 ) but I do agree there should be no religion telling others people how to live…I’d hate for the Baptists, Muslims, Athiests telling me what I can and can’t do. My point is, though, that 52% was not all Mormons, so it wasn’t a church telling gay couples they weren’t allowed to marry.
i agree with you, i think had the no on 8 had won, i do not think there will be too much chaos now. i do respect the decision of majority, but it does not mean that one can not continue standing up for what they believe in, but i believe in a more calm manner.
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I am looking at this from an other perspective, if the votes turned to be in favor of gay and lesbian marriage I would be disappionted in the people who aren’t thinking out side of their box. Look at the future of the children growing up in a world without a balance of role models. Do some reading, boys need a civil male role model, girls too need a dad. Boys need to be nurtured by a mother. What kind of confused population are we headed for when teachers are teaching same sex partner education in kintergarden and first grade. Let’s brief ourselves about what is currently happening in Mass. A father was even put in jail over the issue of same sex education, his son came home with this type of educational material, read about it. These days are already difficult for many children being raised by absent parents. I have known girls without a mom in the house, the father worked when they were home. No one taught them personal hygene, they wore to bed what they wore to school that day, then wore those clothes again the next day. Most of the time they didn’t have socks to wear. Many children are made fun of for what ever little thing may be different about them. Think about it the whole idea is out of wack! And the children suffer when adults loose self controll.
First, I was brought up Catholic but left the church because I will not be told how to live, think or act by a church FULL of hypocrites. Most churches, in my opinion, have completely lost their way in terms of the principles by which they were established.
Second, while I would completely support full rights for gay and lesbian couples (exactly the same as for heterosexual married couples), I think that they are being hypocritical in one aspect. They claim that those who don’t believe that they should be granted the same rights as heterosexuals are intolerant because they won’t let gays/lesbians “marry”. But aren’t they doing the same thing by not allowing the heterosexuals’ definition of marriage to remain “between one man and one woman”. If they are so hell-bent on tolerance then they should respect “our” views and accept another word to describe gay/lesbian unions. After all, by their very definition they are different than heterosexual marriages, so why not distinguish them that way? The benefits and rights can still be exactly the same. Just my opinion.
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I agree with u too. I have a friend in CA who happen to be a Mormon. Her husband holds a high position in the church and so they went to rally against Gay Marriage. I mean, Im not against lesbian coz i have lesbian friends too. But I just dont go for gay marriage. Think about the impact on kids being able to see two guys kissing each other or two girls showing public affection.Indeed its not healthy for our kids too see.
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These comments have gotten kind of funny.
Claire – what are you going to do raise your kids in a bubble? They will see gay people kissing whether or not there is gay marriage. Do you feel just as strongly about your kids seeing unmarried heterosexuals kissing?
Jean – trust me there are bad parents out there, doesn’t matter if there is one mom, one dad, a mom and a dad, two mom’s or two dads. There will always be bad parents who don’t teach their kids about hygeine or other things. Likewise there will always be good parents no matter the combination. Part of the argument for gay/lesbian marriage is for the children so that the other parent will have rights if they decide to seperate. I am not necessarilly for gay/lesbian marriage but I also do no think it is right to make a constitutional ammendment banning it.
You know, if we allow gay marriages, that would be a sure way to get rid of PDA 😀
(disclaimer: I’m not saying we should try to stop it…just making a marriage joke)
I like your take on things Signe, it will surely be interesting to see how all this plays out. Either way, I’m still never getting married, so I have no stake in any of this beyond the human rights issues.
Choking in smoky California….
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Mormons are taking the heat because some very prideful mormons went out of their way to make this an issue for mormons to get involved. Intolerance and self-righteousness knows no religious boundaries and that is what this issue was about. Mormons weren’t the only people who voted for Prop 8, but many prominent ones went out of their way to shake this hornets nest. Furthermore the chief financial backers of prop 8 were mormons with money. If you look at the top ten financial contributors for the prop 8 movement they donated 80% of the funding to run commercials and campaign, of those ten 7 were prominent mormons.
As a group you are going to catch the fall out for this and you should, because you let people drag your church into the political arena and didn’t try and stop it.
BTW had prop 8 not been on the ballot you can guarantee that money would have been poured into Colorado and more would have this time except they were sure this was a done deal.
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I didn’t “let” anyone on the other side of the continent do anything….people do what they wish with their money. And if they’re that prominent and rich and powerful, you should also realize they wouldn’t let anyone stop them from doing what they wanted to with their own money.
And it’s total (wrong) speculation about Colorado…this is not the first time there have been issues like these around this country. There were other states with other issues.
What people like you don’t realize is that the church takes no stance on politics…individual members have the right to vote however they want. Mormons around the nation have no reason to “catch the fall” for votes of a few in one state.
What you’re saying would be just like me saying, “There were a few gays that caused problems for the church in California, so now I’m going to be angry/hate/bash all gays around the rest of the country.”
I don’t judge like that and it’s sad you do.
Here in Canada, we don’t have “propositions” to vote on during elections. We are probably more “liberal-minded” here and our federal government passed into law that gay marriages are allowed and gay couples receive equal opportunities. It is also left up to individual churches whether or not they will perform a marriage between gay couples.
I was raised Catholic but I no longer go to church and I am tolerant of all religions. I have friends and co-workers who are Moslem, Jewish and every type of Christian denomination and all I ask is “don’t preach to me.” Beliefs are a personal matter and as one of our former Prime Minister’s (Pierre Trudeau) said, “the state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.”
What’s ironic is that we often hear about “Christian values” or “Christian behavior” but few people realize that many of the same values are shared by the other religions. When we treat others with respect and are tolerant of their beliefs, it’s not the “Christian” thing to do – it’s the thing to do, regardless of your religion and you’ll find that ALL the major religions share this principle.
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Respect and tolerance. I think we all need to learn those virtues better 🙂 !!
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hang in there honey…im sure you’re beautiful! Go get yourself a snickers or two and blow them off!